"I do not know how to say it," Philip responded slowly. "I am afraid that you have not much sympathy with my views of life."
"I probably have more than you realize. It's true that I do not believe as you do, but we are both Puritans at heart, so that in the end our theories come to much the same thing."
He looked up with evident inability to follow her meaning.
"Very likely I couldn't make myself clear if I tried to explain. Suppose we give up abstractions and come to the concrete. What is the especial thing in which you think that my theories are different from yours?"
"I do not think," he answered, hesitating more than ever, "that you have much sympathy with asceticism."
"None whatever," she declared uncompromisingly. "Nobody could have more honor for a sacrifice to principle than I have; but I believe that a sacrifice to an idea is apt to be the outcome of nothing but vanity or policy."
"Why, an idea is a thing that we believe with the head; don't you know the way in which we think things out while we secretly feel altogether different?"
"I do not think I follow you; but surely self-denial is a sacrifice to principle."
"Not necessarily. I'm afraid I may seem to you profane, Philip, but I must say that it seems to me that asceticism is one of the worst plague-spots which ever afflicted humanity. The root of it is the pagan idea of propitiating a cruel deity by self-torture."
"How can you say so!" he cried. "It is the pure devotion of a man to the good of his higher nature and to the good of the race."
"As far as the race goes, vicarious suffering can't be anything, so far as I see, except an effort to placate an unforgiving deity. As for the devotion of a man to his higher nature, you will never convince me that to go against nature and to indulge in morbidness is improving to anything. But here we are, swamped in a bog of great moral propositions again. We can't agree about these things, and the thing which we really want to say will be lost sight of entirely."
He turned his face away from her again, either troubled by what she had been saying or unable to find words and confidence to go on with the confession of his trouble.
"Is it," Helen inquired, "that you have found that you have yourself a doubt of the value of asceticism?"